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Hey Adam, I have forwarded a copy to your office with a suggestion I put forward to the Fuzzy Boundaries people, about a fair way to pick a name for our neighbourhood. Please have a look and email me or the community, with your input or suggestion, on how the community can have a fair and democratic way, of picking a new name for our neighbourhood or staying with the old name we got and Promote instead.
SUGGESTION: I think the best and fair thing to do is to give a ballot card to all the residences, one ballot to each family in the catchment area and ask them to pick one name out of lets say, the top five, out of their top 25 names, which is listed in their website. And also have a second question in the same ballot and ask the residents,what they would suggest as a neighbourhood or alternate name for their community. The ballots boxes should be placed in different locations in the community and then at the last Fuzzy Boundaries community meeting in January 2010, count the ballots.
I think people should just call the neighbourhood what they like, and over time a clear winner will probably emerge. I would think our politicians have better uses for their time than organizing a referendum for what the Junction Triangle should be called. (Nevermind people barely vote in actual elections, getting them to vote on a name would be tricky.)Also, what would happen after a name is decided via this referendum?
With that said, i'm trying to get people to call Bloor and Lansdowne Blansdowne. Bloordale is such a ridiculous name.
I disagree, I don't think they should call this community what they want. Some people are taking this naming thing very serious, like the Fuzzy group, for me it's the process that's important making sure everyone's voice is heard. You know sometimes politicians have to do stuff like this and yes, this is important. The councillors role is to make sure that their is a fair process and that all of the voices is heard. Chris at Adam's office told me today, their really isn't any real rule or Law, it's really up to the residents to decide. I believe their should be structure, which makes people accountable and fair
There is nothing binding about the Fuzzy Boundaries initiative. People like myself who like the name Junction Triangle can keep on using it regardless of what Fuzzy Boundaries decides. I'm not part of the Fuzzy Boundaries group, but I've spoken to Kevin Putnam and other members about their project. It's meant to be a community-building exercise that encourages people to think and talk about their neighbourhood. I've enjoyed the process so far because it has introduced me to new people and given me an excuse to do more research into local history.
Ram is right when he says politicians have better things to do than organize a formal vote on a neighbourhood name. He's also right about the fact we have enough trouble getting people to turn out for municipal elections. (Ram is, however, wrong about the name Blansdowne and my promise to strangle him still stands.)
Fuzzy Boundaries has gone out of its way to notify everybody in the neighbourhood about the initiative. People who want to be involved can be. People who have better things to do can still call the neighbourhood whatever they want. That's called a win-win.
Anybody who wants more information about the Fuzzy Boundaries project can visit the website: http://www.fuzzyboundaries.ca/
I agree. this whole 'fuzzy boundries' things seems wrong - too contrived. a neighbour name is something organic, not voted on.
i suspect, without really knowing, that not all members of this area are participating or engaged in this idea which means that only a certain membership will be the decision makers in this marketing game.
I want MIchael for Junction Triangle President.
G., Why do you call it a "marketing game"? Just curious.
You are right to suspect not everyone in the neighbourhood is participating even though Fuzzy Boundaries has made a good effort to contact everybody. The lack of broad participation has been a concern of mine as well, but I can live with that because the project's result isn't binding. As you say, neighbourhood names are organic. People will continue calling the area what they want. I like Junction Triangle and will keep using the name regardless of what Fuzzy Boundaries decides.
Hey Guys, I think it's a little more then what you are saying and what is going on. Kevin Putman has been quoted in the news, both in the newspapers and on tv, about how he doesn't know what to tell his friends and family as to where he lives and that we are in an identity crisis and we are an unnamed community, blah, blah, blah. I think it's more then engaging people to talk, come on now. And please, tell me what is the councillors/politician role, Adam has been quoted in supporting this. I'm sure the councillor would have time for this and to make sure that everyone voice is heard and their is a fair process. I remember seeing a flyer a little while back about our councillor having a meeting or two about bio-toilets, I'm sure he can make time for this
> Kevin Putman has been quoted in the news, both in > the newspapers and on tv, about how he doesn't know > what to tell his friends and family as to where he lives ...
If Kevin Putman doesn't want to call the area the Junction Triangle, does it really matter? He's just some random dude. He has NO power whatsoever. Fuzzy Boundries has no power whatsoever.
> I think it's more then engaging people to talk, come on now.
Exactly. And that's what this group has been trying to do. I think the whole naming this is really a side issue. They are trying to get people out, thinking about the area they live in. As Michael has said, they seem to be making a pretty big effort to get people out. If people decide not to show up, what exactly can they do?
> Adam has been quoted in supporting this.
What's not to like? A group of people actively engaged in the area. Good for them.
Michael for Mayor!!!
I didn't write "marketing game" with malice. I apologise if that is how it was interpreted. I understand that the project to name our neighbourhood originated because the Toronto Star couldn't provide one and people felt, I don't know, left out? I refer to it as marketing because we are trying to package something and make it appealing. Something that maybe defies a common understanding given people's differing social and economical status.
I do not take offence by the work being done, and I know it is not biding, and I can see that there is a real effort to engage all members of the neighbourhood, but given the reality of poverty and other systemic barriers, not all voices even if given the opportunity, will participate. I guess that's why is just seems contrived and made up.
I admit that I smile as I ride down the west path and see all the potential names in chalk and if it encourages civic engagement who am I to knock it.
I didn't see any malice in your comments. I was curious about you writing "marketing game" because I posted a comment myself on the Fuzzy Boundaries site which had No Logo in the subject line. I wrote my comment because I was concerned that some of the name suggestions seemed to be aimed at branding the neighbourhood in a way that would attract "nice people" to the area with the implication that some of the current residents aren't "nice" - nice being code for educated and prosperous and "not nice" meaning working class or poor. In other words, I was concerned that some people were going out of their way to promote gentrification not that it needs any help. Someone said on the Fuzzy Boundaries website said the name Junction Triangle had negative connotations. That it was associated with crime and pollution. In a way that's why I like the name. I associate it with the grittiness found in the area. I don't want the neighbourhood to become too "nice."
It's a Junction Triangle out there!
I'm coming in to this email thread a bit late, but I wanted to clear up a few things that have been mentioned:
First, Jack's ideas for being inclusive, making sure everyone gets a chance to vote, etc. are all good. But I should note that the timing and decision making process has been stated on the website since the beginning (many months ago). It was also presented at the previous meetings and OK'd by the attendees. You can read about the naming process here: http://www.fuzzyboundaries.ca/NamingProcess
The exact details of the voting process are still being determined to make sure that everyone who wants to gets a fair chance at voting.
Adam Giambrone and his staff have been supportive and involved in the process. They have attended previous Fuzzy Boundaries meetings, and I hope to see them at future meetings. I don't see any need for his office to organize more meetings, as the Fuzzy Boundaries group has already taken care of doing this and making sure they are publicized.
Also, Fuzzy Boundaries started *before* The Star published their neighbourhood maps. It's not a result of The Star's lack of naming the Junction Triangle (they updated their maps in future versions). The timing was just interesting, as the project was well underway when The Star decided to do that map and leave our 'hood "nameless".
If anyone still has concerns or questions about this, the best thing to do is to participate on the Fuzzy Boundaries website and come to the meetings / events.
The next big meeting on January 14th should be an interesting one since there are no "presentations" scheduled, but it's all about letting people stand up and explain why they like or dislike a particular name. Should be interesting. After this, the voting process starts.
In the end, the neighbourhood will be called whatever people call it. If people don't like the chosen name, nobody will use it and it will die off.
Also...not really anything to do with naming, but still a fun neighbourhood event with a special (local) guest: Fuzzy Boundaries film night this Thursday November 12th at the Perth-Dupont library: "Special screening at 6:45 p.m. of the NFB documentary The Travellers at the Perth/Dupont location of the Toronto Public Library (1589 Dupont). The film tells the story of Canada's first folk group which included a longtime neighbourhood resident. If you remember the song "This Is Your Land, This Our Land" you will know The Travellers. Come early, seating is limited."
V. G. said: Also...not really anything to do with naming. you don't go on TV and make statements in the newspapers about the community been nameless, in an identity crisis and shit like that and say, it's just in fun. I agree it got people talking and engaging with one another, but to criticize the neighbourhood. And to say that Fuzzy Boundries represents the Junction Triangle is an understatement, 60 people that show up at a fuzzy meeting with a population of 15,000 in the JT, does not speak for everyone, this is why I asked Adam to make sure everyne's voice is heard, he is the councillor of all of ward 18 and his role should be to represent the best interest of the residents and not fuzzy's interest. Fuzzy does not represent me and a many more others who live within the JT. Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see were it was just in fun part???
Last night I went to the Perth-Dupont library to watch a National Film Board documentary about a Canadian folk group, the Travellers. One of the group's members, Simone Taylor, is a local resident and she was at the library to talk about the film afterwards. Until very recently, I hadn't heard the name the Travellers but like millions of Canadians I was familiar with their Canadian version of the Woody Guthrie classic "This land is your land".
I wanted to mention yesterday's event because Jack Fava recently sent a message criticizing the Fuzzy Boundaries project: http://www.fuzzyboundaries.ca/ I don't want to attack Jack who has a perfect right to his opinion, but I do want show why I like the project even though I think Junction Triangle is good name that doesn't need to be changed.
Yesterday's event at the library was put together by Kevin Putnam of the Fuzzy Boundaries group with the help of Carmen at the library. It came about because during the discussion of the area's name on the website someone pointed out that a former member of the Travellers lived in the neighbourhood. It also happens that Simone Taylor was heavily involved in a group that was fighting pollution in the area during the 1980s when there was still a lot of heavy industry here.
Because of the discussion about the area's name I got to go to an enjoyable community event that wouldn't have happened otherwise and I got to learn more about the neighbourhood's history.
We live in a society where we have these wonderful communication tools like the internet but where neighbours often don't know each other. Any project that gets people out of the house and talking to each other has to be a good thing.
Mike, I'm so glad you enjoyed yourself last night. But what the F--k does me having an opinion about Fuzzy, have to do with what you watched last night at the Library. There are so many in this community who feel the same as I do about Fuzzy, they don't represent me and many others. I don't see why my opinion is any different then any others who blogged on Fuzzy.
Mike your weird, you act and respond like a Liberal always FLIP/FLOPPING, not sure where you are coming from, you look like a Conservative and you write like NPD.
Great email! Very well put.
A question I have that may have been answered at the Fuzzy Boundaries meeting:
Who named the area The Junction Triangle and who gave them the right?
Can't let that pass..............
Michael; very astute and well put! (as usual)
[and no 'competition' intended, but]
Jack; you just don't 'get' it!
I'm not exactly sure who came up with the name, but it seems that it was from the City planning department in the late 1970s. The City was putting together a "Neighbourhood Plan" at the time, and referred to the area as the Junction Triangle, published meeting announcements using that name, etc. At around the same time and into the 80's, the Star and Globe had articles calling this neighbourhood by that name too. However, they also seemed to use the name "Junction" and "Junction Triangle" interchangeably.
To add to that....neighbourhood groups started up in the 1980s to fight pollution from the local industries, and they also used "Junction Triangle" in their names.
So...there was never any kind of formal naming process in the past, or anything even close to a democratic vote. Someone just came up with that name, used it, and it caught on (and has since diminished somewhat too...).
I expect that we'll see Ram's "Blansdowne" name become uber-popular too, as soon as the media starts using it. :)
This post is wholly inappropriate, Jack. Please keep in mind DIG IN’s mission – Green Clean Safe CIVIL.
I am not usually big on requesting public apologies, but in this instance I feel you owe one to Michael, and to the DIG IN listserve.
This is completely uncalled for. Not only is name calling is immature and destructive but you've also just alienated a person who supports your efforts regularly. Please practise self-restraint and respect for other people's opinions.
Hey D., I never started this. Mike could of expressed himself on how much he liked the movie at the library, without adding my name. So if you can't take it, don't dish it out. Plus I think it's time I removed my name from the digin list serve.
There is a compliment in here, although perhaps unintended. The worst political position is an inflexible one. If you're stuck in an NDP mode, or a liberal one, or a conservative one or a socialist or anarchist or libertarian, if you can't move around and see other opinions, then it's just plain narrow minded. Michael simply demonstrates that he has an open mind.
Hi all, wow, this has escalated, unfortunately. I agree, Jack, that it was uncalled for to get personal with Michael. Your concern about names and organizations are valid, and deserve to be listened to. However, that won’t happen if you (or anyone else for that matter) stray from a discussion about the issues, and resort to branding and name-calling.
Jack, if you read back carefully, you will note that Michael only referenced your email as a way of drawing attention to a particular view about the name. He was extra careful to acknowledge your right to hold your views on this issue, and was respectfully agreeing to disagree. He did not get personal, at all.
Really, we need engaged residents to help make the neighbourhood a healthier, more inclusive place, and you are an example of ‘being engaged’ Jack. I think we all appreciate and respect that…and, yes, we all need to be able to agree to disagree on certain things. But please, let’s keep it respectful and focused on a discussion of the issues. If that doesn’t suit you, perhaps you may wish to consider another forum to air your thoughts. I do, however, think it would be gracious of you to acknowledge that you got a little over-heated when you sent your message.